The Everyday Awesome Project

92: Four Questions That Will Liberate You: "The Work" of Byron Katie

• Polly Mertens & Samantha Pruitt • Season 2 • Episode 92

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THE WORK: That is the convo this week between Coach Sam and Coach Polly, as they revisit Byron Katie's mindset transformation process they both experienced well over 20 years ago. THE WORK asks you- what if the source of your suffering isn't what happened to you, but the stories you tell yourself about what happened? And what if we pause long enough to dig underneath that crappy feeling to see if your ideas about what, why and who did you wrong is even true? In this eye-opening exploration of Byron Katie's transformative practice we will dive into a deceptively simple process that has the power to completely revolutionize your relationship with your thoughts.

THE WORK isn't complicated—it's just four questions that, when applied honestly, can dismantle even your most painful beliefs: Is it true? Can you absolutely know it's true? How do you react when you believe that thought? Who would you be without the thought? These questions serve as a meditation, inviting you to look deeply at what's really causing your suffering.

We break down how this practice works in real-world situations, from that person who didn't show up to your meeting (and what you made that mean about yourself) to broader anxieties about the state of the world. The beauty of The Work is that it applies universally—whether you're struggling with personal relationships or feeling overwhelmed by societal challenges.

What makes this practice particularly powerful is its accessibility. Byron Katie gives this work away freely, through books like "Loving What Is," her podcast "At Home with Byron Katie," and resources on thework.com. You don't need special training or expensive retreats to benefit from this process—just the willingness to question your most cherished beliefs.

Our minds are constantly deleting, distorting, and making meaning of everything around us, often in ways that cause unnecessary suffering. By slowing down and examining these thoughts, we can free ourselves from patterns that may have controlled us for decades. This isn't about positive thinking or denial—it's about finding what's true and reclaiming your power to choose how you respond to life.

Try this practice once. You might be surprised by how quickly you can move from upset to clarity, from suffering to freedom. Because ultimately, how your life feels is far more important than how it looks.


xoxo - Coach Sam & Coach Polly 

Follow Coach Polly @getbusythriving and Coach Sam @thesamanthapruitt

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Polly Mertens:

hey superstars.

Samantha Pruitt:

Welcome back paula here and sam pruitt.

Polly Mertens:

What's up, beautiful humans yo, what well you're talking about. Like quote the work lovely, beautiful byron katie that is a woman, I know you think of that. You're like, oh geez, what does that mean? Right, but it does sound a little intense, yeah but it's not, it's not well it's.

Polly Mertens:

I heard her talk about well. I would love for you to share what it is, but she was like it's a meditation with the questions and I was like that's really soft and sweet. You know it's not like a grind out or, you know know, like something.

Samantha Pruitt:

So thoughts ideas, opinions, experiences, reactions, et cetera. Become more aware, reflect upon that and we'll take them through the process and hopefully release it. So look at it to see whether it's true and then let it go, Release it.

Polly Mertens:

Yeah, you know it arises out of some upset. Right, you've got some resistance. Oftentimes her work, I find, is tied to like one-on-one relationships, but what we'll get into is like it actually can apply to like a global, like people are or the world is. You know right now. You know and how your relationship to a bigger, like the society or social media or the government or something like that it doesn't have to be just like your husband or your wife or your kids or something like that, but it definitely works well in intimate relationships. You know one-on-one, any one-on-one relationship for sure.

Samantha Pruitt:

Well, peopling is the most complicated thing that we do as a human being, so giving people a couple tools is always handy, and I think what's great about this work? Well, first of all, it's really old work. Like you and I were just talking before the show, I think I literally experienced this 25 years ago or something like that. I went to a live event. That's where I saw her. I read her first book. She has a couple new books, so to be clear, it's Byron Katie, not Katie Byron. Okay, byron Katie, not Katie Byron, okay, byron Katie. Loving what Is? I read that book. It was fantastic, highly recommend. A Thousand Names for Joy is her second book I haven't heard of that Polly probably wrote that with her.

Samantha Pruitt:

Ding ding, ding. I like the sound of it. I didn't know she wrote it. I haven't heard of that one. A Thousand Names for Joy, and then the last one, more recently, is A Mind at Home in Itself. What in the hell? I'm going to have to check out that number three. And then, the podcast. She has a podcast. Who'd have thunk At Home with Byron Katie, yeah.

Polly Mertens:

And just so, her, I think it's called the Work Institute or something. I remember it. So you know we live in California and you go down the Central Coast. There's a little tiny town called Ojai, california, and in this little, love it, love it I swear. It's like a vortexy Sedona, but definitely not as big or popular and stuff like that. But it's super cute little village town and she has an office there that's like the world headquarters of her empire. The work is in.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah, so I was taking my van. Why are we doing this freaking podcast in her office? You didn't tell me I'm going there.

Polly Mertens:

I know right, yeah. So I pull up in my RV this was years ago and just pulled by this random building. It was beautiful, I think it was like a converted church. It this random building, it was beautiful, I think it was like a converted church. It's really beautiful building and I was like just admiring and it was like the you know, the world headquarters of Byron Katie, the work. I was like what the hell here? So good, so good. So if you ever know high California, look for it, yeah.

Samantha Pruitt:

Okay, we'll visit her. We'll visit her. So it's a practice, right? It's a self-directed practice for people and it does involve a series of questions, very simple questions. Maybe people should get out a pen and a 3x5 card right now, unless they plan to tattoo it on their arm. Put it in your phone something. Yeah, put it in your phone. Put it in your phone and we're going to take them through it and we're going to use, rather than hey, you know, I have this ongoing conflict with my boss or my boyfriend or my partner or whatever. We're going to use this in a bigger, broader conversation around where you and I are really seeing people struggling in terms of what's happening in our current day external environment, you know, politically, economically, socially, all that kind of stuff, and what our thoughts and feelings might be there, because that's a genuine update of everyday upheaval and how people can have better cope with that and work through that.

Samantha Pruitt:

Humaning is hard, like you've said, so yeah, and, but definitely it's a full-time job.

Polly Mertens:

Definitely apply this to your personal relationships. I think you know anything that you know, any, any place where you're interacting with something, someone, whether it's like that global sphere, like culture or a community, or in your more intimate one-on-one relationships. This is definitely just. I mean, when this and she gives it away, I mean that's what I've always been amazed by. Like you know, she gives her. She's like transformed the world with this, you know, and she gives it away. I mean that's what I've always been amazed by. Like you know, it's free. She gives it away. She's like transformed the world with this. You know she's not you know some top secret thing that you only have to go to her $5,000, $10,000 retreats to get, or something like that.

Polly Mertens:

It's like it's her gift you know, like and she's such, she does retreats and things like that, but you can get this downloaded on the internet all day long, but we wanted to bring it to you and just share about it and the workcom is her website also.

Samantha Pruitt:

So it can be. So it's a practice, right. It can be something that you can do anywhere at any time. There is kind of a more ideal environment where you can actually relax and breathe, but sometimes it could be you're driving down the freeway 70 miles an hour and somebody cuts you off and you proceed to flip them off and then they flip you off and then the whole thing degrades from there Humanity at its best. So maybe it's hard to relax and breathe then and be still, but you can still center yourself and try to better relax and take some deep breaths, right?

Polly Mertens:

Yeah, what I really noticed that I hadn't. You know, I've seen videos of her doing this, but I hadn't seen it. I think I've seen some more recent ones where I didn't pick this up in the years past, but us doing this episode. I went back and watched some and some more recent ones. I really got how it's all about slowing down.

Polly Mertens:

I think she says you meditate with the question. I think that's how she described it was like each question, you meditate with it and you check in with yourself. Right, like you're you're going into the experience, because often it's like the past tense you know so somebody upset you or you know like what the one we're going to use is. Like you're overwhelmed, like it's overwhelming, you know whatever. Like you're saying this thing about the world is, or my, my job is, or my life is kind of thing, and it's sitting with that experience and like where is it in your body? You know you'll, you'll go through it. But, um, I was really impressed by how, how much space she gave to the answering of these questions, not just four questions. Boom, boom, boom, move on Right. Like release it's yeah, yeah.

Samantha Pruitt:

Ideally, it's something that you're not able to get let go of. So, let's say, an altercation happened with whomever, in whatever, or you just are having the experience, the overwhelm experience, and it's just staying with you. It's becoming part of your reoccurring theme rumination, thoughts of the brain, emotions in the body. You feel it's coming along for the ride and you've carried it forward. So at a later date, that day or that afternoon or the next day or whenever you're available, you would go through this process. Um, and you can do this with other people, other people right, like you can have a partner who does this with you and you can do this kind of work together. You can do it in community.

Samantha Pruitt:

Um, it is kind of fun to watch. I got to see her do it with people and I'm sure you're referencing some videos. It is kind of fun to watch it in front of you because then you learn. Well, first of all, it's just thoroughly enjoyable to see people blow their own minds right, but then you learn that your own can be blown because you're about to do it. Question everything no-transcript.

Polly Mertens:

Like you're talking about just this I'm overwhelmed, or, you know, I can't get it, can't catch a breath, kind of feeling. And that's a way of being and you can like have that state. Like that's just your, you know, sort of like fight or flight, like you just get yourself in this nervous system jacked upness, yeah yeah, total dysregulation, and it's hard to bring it back down.

Samantha Pruitt:

So, in a perfect scenario, you'd find a place to relax and breathe, be comfortable either with yourself or with somebody you feel safe. Right, you would recall the situation. Okay, for most people that's pretty easy.

Polly Mertens:

Like the moment. So it's about you know, or if you're telling yourself you're overwhelmed, a lot or something happens and it overwhelms you, or you know, or you have an altercation with somebody, right?

Samantha Pruitt:

and then the feelings of upset that transpired. It could be mad, right. It could be sad, it could be hurt, could be powerlessness, whatever that experience was, and then the emotions that were attached to that. How did that make you feel? How did you react to that? What was your response?

Polly Mertens:

And where, like you know. So one lady I saw her. She was like, when I think of I forget what the or she said I'm not good enough was what she made up in that moment and she's like, I feel like my jaw is clenching, you know, and I, you know, when I think of I'm not good enough, I sort of like feel like a cow, like I just want to crouch in or something, and she's like, oh, my jaw clenches. So everyone's going to have a different emotional stamp on what that looks like in their body.

Samantha Pruitt:

So you explore what happened, you get re-familiar with, at least in your brain, in your body and in your emotional state. How did it make you feel? What was the belief you thought?

Polly Mertens:

occurred. One thing I just I don't know why I want to clarify this, but it's telling me it's important and that is you know, our mind is a deletion and distortion machine. So deleting and distorting and then meaning making right Like boom, boom, boom, the trifecta of suffering. So noting what was so, like what was actually said, what did the person actually do, what did you make up? Interpret? Yeah, exactly. Well, you can't help the interpretation but like as close as you can get to what they actually said or what actually happened, so that it takes a little bit of the charge out. It was like this moved from here to there, they left the room, not like they stormed out of the room and they you know it's like person left the room. You know that can help just that's the what's so.

Samantha Pruitt:

Well, if you can imagine you are doing this in a therapeutic setting or with another person, and you can obviously write this stuff down, that's incredible. You would be expressing all of this. Well, here were the circumstances that arose. Here's how it went. Here's the setting. Here's the X Y Z. And then here's what it went. Here's the setting, here's the X Y Z. And then here's what was said. And then here's how I responded, because, whatever, whatever your conclusion is, that was so upsetting.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah Right, you want to pull it all back out. For some people, this can be really incredibly uncomfortable, by the way, and I think, in general, a lot of people don't want to do this because it's a bit confrontational. But how else are you going to release this shit If you don't actually look at it? You just bury it down there. Bury it down there, right? Okay, so this is all what you do before you even do the work. So this is the prep. You see, people are already logging off and turning this shit off. They're like, oh hells, no, am I doing this? Well, we're going to show you why it's so incredibly powerful and liberating.

Polly Mertens:

Yeah, I was just going to say you got to tell them there's a carrot at the end of all this stick. It's called freedom.

Samantha Pruitt:

It's called emotional freedom. I mean, who the hell doesn't want that? Exactly, exactly, okay. So then you're going to ask yourself a series of questions. Are you ready?

Polly Mertens:

Let's get it One, two, three, four. So let's hit it, and then we'll come back, just so that they can have them all succinct.

Samantha Pruitt:

Okay, so the first is is it true? Write that down, is it true? Question number one is it true that those things happened and this is what the experience was? Number two can you absolutely know that this is true? Can you absolutely know that this is true?

Polly Mertens:

Insert the word absolutely, because that's an important word.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah, we'll drill into that a little bit more. Number three how did you react and feel when you believed it was true? How did you react and how did it make you feel when you believed it was true? How did you react and how did it make you feel when you believed it was true?

Polly Mertens:

Such a great question. Such a great question. I reacted like a lunatic. Like a scared little girl.

Samantha Pruitt:

Right, hurt, hurt the dog, or something. Before the last question, there's this process that's basically called the turnaround. Oh, yeah, right, okay, and the turnaround is you're going to come up with three scenarios that are the opposite of that. Yeah, so, yeah, this thing happened. Yes, it's true, I know it to be true, I believe it to be true and it made me feel like shit, basically. And then the three what would be the opposite If that weren't really what happened? What if it was this or this or this? So you have to actually come up with three scenarios of well, really, it could have been that Polly was hangry and I thought she was giving me an attitude, but really she just hadn't eaten for six hours and did a big workout and she's just, you know, blood sugar dysregulated, or it could be whatever, whatever you know. A couple other scenarios of why maybe you and I Her feelings were hurt.

Polly Mertens:

And so she lashed out at me or something, or yeah.

Samantha Pruitt:

She actually does.

Polly Mertens:

She actually does love me and I'm making her wrong or something, you know whatever.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yep, yep, okay. And then, lastly, who would you be without this thought, feeling and reaction? Who would you be if it were not, true, called fucking free, okay, I mean seriously Powerful, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so interesting to think, and we're going to dig into these and go through them a little bit so people can actually do this work if they want to.

Samantha Pruitt:

You know, it's so interesting to me to think how bizarre that we all are just kind of going around in our own bodies and minds having our own experience completely separate from one another right At this same time, same place, same planet, whatever. But how we're interpreting the world, even you and I right now, talking together in this moment on this podcast, you're having completely different experiences because of the entire history of our personal evolution and everything we bring to this one moment, this one conversation. How could it possibly be that we're having the same experience? It's impossible.

Samantha Pruitt:

So, just understanding yourself a little bit in that way that everyone you interact with, even your closest people you know, your mate, your children, your parents, the people that you've had years and years and years in the same house, sharing many, many, many thousands of experiences daily and annually, are having a radically different experience than you are. They're thinking different things, they're feeling different things. They're not even seeing the toothpaste as the same toothpaste that's going on there and scrubbing the it's none of it. Yeah, the temperature of the water there, that's different temperature than it is for me, like everything, it's totally gonna. Just that will blow people's minds because I think they take for granted and I know I've done it before with my partner, with my children, with my family members like how could they not be seeing what I'm seeing and experiencing what I'm experiencing?

Polly Mertens:

How could?

Samantha Pruitt:

they not be, and really how the hell could they?

Polly Mertens:

be. You know they're not in there with you. You're the only one in there.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah, exactly, exactly. We're so unique.

Polly Mertens:

The only thing I wanted to add to this I love what you just put down, because that was freaking awesome is I'm compelled to share. You know there's inherently no meaning in life, oh well that's slightly painful.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah there's, there's you, you need to yeah, explain it.

Polly Mertens:

So you know, boy, there's a lot of metaphysical things that start to unpack with this, but let's just say there is nothing inherently meaningful going on in the world. Nothing, it's our mind that makes meaning. So, like the fan is on in the world, nothing, it's our mind that makes meaning, like our. So like the fan is on in my room, that's all that's happening. The fan is on in my room.

Polly Mertens:

I could be like stupid things so loud and it's hot, whatever you know, like you know, or like you were talking about the neighbor, my neighbor's wind chimes, or something like that. You know it's like I could make meaning Like doesn't she care? You know who knows?

Samantha Pruitt:

Right, Whatever Like inherently she's trying to gong me right out of the building.

Polly Mertens:

It's like you were talking about people cut you off in traffic or whatever. It's like the person is driving down the road and they move their car to the left. That's what happened, and then you, you know. So just I'll just leave it there, because there's a lot to that. But there is no meaning in the world.

Samantha Pruitt:

Nothing has any meaning except for the meaning we give it and if you really want to dig into that, read the book man's search for meaning. Yeah, that's excellent.

Polly Mertens:

Your mind, yeah, or any of these, but I think you know this is where like this goes well with what we're talking about here, because all of the turmoil, all the upset, all the friction, all the ups, you know, resistance, that suffering, whichever it is, it lives inside of us, right, I like like I was we, we are actually the cause of it. Yeah, I was coaching, yeah, in my program, and the two of the participants they were supposed to have a meeting to. You know, they have like this little buddy system and it's like, oh yeah, go have, go have a meeting in between classes, right, and one didn't show up, like like one, they, they set the time that, whatever. This is an outrage. I want to, I want a reason for this.

Polly Mertens:

One of them was quite flustered, like cut the other one off, you know, and and I like in in the mind, you know, and well, I just have these expectations and not in my you know, and I was like whole lot of meaning there, you know, and I was like you know anyway, so I gave some coaching around that. But that's just how things occur to us. Like you know, there's just person didn't show up to the meeting, all this other stuff from her past, you know Well.

Samantha Pruitt:

let's ask that question First of all. Is that true? Yes, it is true. Susie didn't show up to the meeting well, but it's what is your.

Polly Mertens:

What upset her is? Yeah, too.

Samantha Pruitt:

Can you absolutely know? It's true?

Polly Mertens:

well, well, I think if you sit with those questions, you know like what happened, or whatever. What she would tell you is um, you know, she totally, she totally, um disrespected me yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, that was what. That was what was going on, or the experience, and wasted my time and rejection. You know there was a lot of this other stuff. You know, if you really unpack, not just oh, she's, oh, she stood me up. That's what she said.

Samantha Pruitt:

Oh, wow, that's good terminology. Okay, so one is is it true? Yes, it's true, sally didn't show up to the meeting Number two. Can you absolutely know it's true that she disrespected you and stood you up? No, I actually don't know if that's true. I know she didn't show up to the Zoom link, never got on, but I don't know if she was actually disrespecting me and standing me up Right. So already there's a question there, a little bit of gray area. How did I react and feel when she stood me up?

Polly Mertens:

I was pissed off, right, yeah, I was like walls up, right, like cut, cut her off. Like walls up, yeah, don't have time for her, nevermind, you know. But also this, like cowering victim, might be a little severe, but in this case I would say, maybe appropriate a little bit of that, you know like, oh, you know um anyway.

Samantha Pruitt:

So and then there's the turnaround, which is what are the? What are three opposites of what could have happened? Again, this is going to be so easy, right? She totally forgot that's a very highly probable situation. Something way more important happened that needed her immediate attention, or her computer blew up and she couldn't go online, I don't know whatever. Like you make you know three other possibilities, you start to explore other possibilities.

Polly Mertens:

Well, I think also to meaning. I think what's important here is at the level of meaning, right? So if you can identify the meaning, you know she doesn't respect me and stood me up, could be, doesn't? I don't matter to her, you know, like, if you dug into, like.

Samantha Pruitt:

Well, that's the fourth step is who would you be if that wasn't?

Polly Mertens:

Well, what I'm saying is like, if we examine the meaning, you know, so like what meaning was causing the upset for her? Because somebody just not showing up on a phone call is like they're just not here, okay, going on, you know, but but all the drama that we attach to it, right? So, looking at those dramatic elements that the mind made it mean like I'm not important, I'm rejected. You know, I'm not important, I'm rejected, you know, like I'm not sure what was exactly in her head. I'm just giving some examples, but then you turn those around, right. So it's like I'm not important. Is that true?

Polly Mertens:

Can you absolutely know that that's true. What's the opposite of that? I am important, right? She disrespected me. She doesn't respect me, right? Can you absolutely know that's true? What's the opposite of that? She respects me, you know. So like going through not just, oh, she had other things to do, but like what she was making up the meaning about that person not showing up for that call.

Samantha Pruitt:

Right, but usually it takes people. It would take people a little longer to do that immediate switcheroo. You're easily able to do this after 30 years, but for a lot of people just pausing and asking the question I'm reading the little prompts here from her just asking the question like number one. When you ask the is it true? It's just supposed to be a yes or no answer.

Polly Mertens:

Within you.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah, it's like is it for you? Yeah, and then most people would say, yeah, it was true, I was there, I saw it, I saw that that thing happened, right. Number two can you absolutely know whether it's true? If the answer to question number one is yes, can I absolutely know that it's true? Take the opportunity to look again, shine a flashlight on that moment again and see what it reveals to you. And that's the process that you were just unpacking is, or I was suggesting maybe three other possibilities.

Samantha Pruitt:

The third question is how do you react? What happens when you believe that thought? So, close your eyes and witness the feelings, the body, sensations, the behaviors that arrive when you believe that thought. Notice and report the answers to the following questions what images did you see? This is where you were taking people. What images did you see? This is where you were taking people. What images did you see past or future? What emotions or physical sensations were arising when you witnessed those images? How did you treat the other person and how did you treat yourself? So now you're starting to unravel the emotional upheaval that occurred, right? Oh, this is an interesting one. Do any obsessions or addictions begin to appear when you believe that thought what? That's an interesting question. Do any obsessions or addictions? So we would be saying obsessions or addictions to beliefs, to stories, to old patterns, which is what you were also talking about as well.

Polly Mertens:

Well, does this make you want to go eat, drink, you know, buy something, jump on social media, you know? Does this make you want to avoid, you know, the feeling? Anything? Any coping mechanism? Yeah, but it could be an addictive coping mechanisms, yeah.

Samantha Pruitt:

Mm-hmm, but that unpacking that you were referencing is. Maybe we should take them through that once one more time. So let's say we'll just keep using this scenario. Apparently we have a willing participant yeah, we won't name anybody. No, no, but the one that was, um, the person didn't show up for the appointment, the meeting, the scheduled conversation, whatever, and so this other individual is hurt by that and said, hey, they stood me up, that was the terminology that was used. So there was rejection.

Polly Mertens:

And you know, and we're lacing on what we think, but that's for that person to discover. But those are examples of things that you know. That phrase would clearly kind of point to you know that phrase would clearly kind of point to you know it kind of elicits like that sounds like rejected, disappointed, sad, hurt. You know something like that.

Samantha Pruitt:

Yeah, the interesting, it gets even more interesting. Who would you be without that thought? So if you chose not to believe that scenario, that stream of events, stories that you made up in your head and all the emotional upheaval that came out of that, the fallout, if you will, if you chose not to subscribe to Channel 5, who else would you be? Who else would you be?

Polly Mertens:

You know, I'm just laughing over here I don't know why I'm laughing.

Samantha Pruitt:

Channel 5. Change theicking channel.

Polly Mertens:

Well, after so many years of this, I you know, like, um, the work that I'm doing inside of you know, I'm doing this landmark stuff. So one of the things they talk about is get to nothing. And then then what, right? And so get to nothing is I swear. It's like step one to step four is like, you know, let go of that story as fast as possible. Get to nothing, right, like if that wasn't true. All that jumbo that's got you whatever. Okay, who would you be? Like create now. Like okay, all right, like shouldn't jump to the meeting, got it Next.

Samantha Pruitt:

You know what's so crazy? I can think of many examples of people that I know or have worked with or experienced friends or family or whatever um that have held onto things for so long sometimes lifetimes that have literally robbed them of relationships with loved ones, from their own health and wellbeing. Right, because they're trapped in that. Like for so many, really, it's not even just about having joy in your life, but like literally being a healthy person or having connection with other people, people that you love, who you know, have now left your life for a myriad of reasons or whatever, because they held on to these core beliefs and stories that weren't even true. Maybe some circumstances occurred again, but nobody examined the actual situation and definitely nobody rolled into the room doing this work, hey.

Polly Mertens:

Uncle.

Samantha Pruitt:

Ted, remember you said that at Thanksgiving dinner. I want to talk to you about a few things.

Polly Mertens:

I don't think Uncle Ted's going to jump into that combo you know I was going a little bit along with the lines of what you're talking about. So I had someone that I was working with was like um, just has like. I just want to say like the experience as this person talks to me about you know this and that like can't help help. But here in an adult woman, probably close to 60, the trauma that was experienced in childhood right like, it's like right here, like like or right in front of them sorry I'm I know this is an audio podcast as well, so it's like right behind their head or right in front of their face, if you will.

Polly Mertens:

And it was like and you're 60 now or ish, right, and like that was whatever, and there's no trace of that body, that teenage or childhood body, in this body. But yet you keep bringing it forward, bringing it forward right. And I wondered you know somebody, that and that person? I've seen other examples where the victimization of you know childhood abuse that was received, you know, that's true, like that wasn't in their head.

Polly Mertens:

Walking through life, you know, with victim, victim, victim kind of, and then going through scenarios in adult life, you know with victim, victim, victim kind of, and then going through scenarios in adult life and that gets to repeat itself. And I was thinking about there's this work that we do in these courses where it's like when somebody's trauma is seen and heard and, depending on the level, you know, but like they're gotten, like you get empathetically right, like we call it recreating, it's like, wow, I totally get that experience and how that was for you know, as best I can, like I, like I get over there in your world, they feel gotten, it's, it releases them and sets them free. And so I think about this person just walking forward through life is like there was a time in childhood that somebody could have. You know that she probably had shame and you know who knows, whatever. Like didn't want anybody to know about it, but if it had been healed, if it had been seen and witnessed and released way now, back then, like all this lifetime of you know well.

Samantha Pruitt:

That's the science. Thank you for sharing the science. So, um, dr Gabor Mate is the leading expert in this work, but there's tons of people, great, great work is happening in this arena because so many people need to be liberated from this stuff, um, so basically what has been shown scientifically, you know how the body and physiologically how we respond, all that kind of stuff, if a incident, any kind of traumatic experience whatsoever at any level, there are no judgment to any of this stuff. Um had been processed. So the person needs to be handled, held, felt, seen, heard.

Samantha Pruitt:

He you know really that healing thing that we talk about, just being in conversation with someone, being able to share what our experience was, being able to process those emotions, anger, cry, fear, all of the things and being, you know, really unconditionally loved at that moment by a really nonjudgmental, empathetic, compassionate human. The trauma is released. It does not continue, it doesn't take on a life of its own. That continues to cycle and perpetuate into new relationships, new experiences that just double down, triple down, quadruple down on that same exact traumatic experience. So really so much of drama. Work now is about if things happen to people, we need to immediately get them to the support that they need. We need to be there immediately. We need to address it immediately. We need to do everything in our power to help that person heal. All resources need to come to the table, not shh let's not talk about it.

Samantha Pruitt:

We're embarrassed, we're this, we're that All of the stuff that people or families or communities or religions or whatever do to pretend this stuff's going to go away. All we're doing is making those people sick. Those wounds will not heal until they get what they need, and sometimes unfortunately they don't, and the work can be done at any point.

Polly Mertens:

It can be done, you know, and what we're just what we've learned anyway is you sort of like have that wound and you walk around in the world and it just gets touched. So it could be you're having an argument with your boyfriend or lover and actually that's recreating something that you know happened to you 40 years ago, right? But yeah, so you can just work on it in this moment, like this particular experience, and it like releases, because what it does is it sends a signal to the brain, to that traumatic event that's like triggered and causing the upset with this particular person, to the to the moment it was created or the trauma that was unreleased or processed, like you're talking about.

Polly Mertens:

So that's the word as usual, we're a little over here.

Samantha Pruitt:

The stuff is watered, it's fed and I believe it's primarily fed by shame Like there's a watering can, literally they're just pouring it on those weeds.

Polly Mertens:

Well, it's, you know some of that wound. I was just going, those weeds. Well, it's, you know some of that wound. I was just going to say it's just unprocessed, it's unwitnessed, it's the you know, the mind in the moment. So not only do you have these five senses right, so you have a physical, or you know something physical, maybe happened, something you heard, um, maybe tasted, whatever know like there's a five body sensations. And then the meaning right, like the little childhood, you in that moment, fearful, whatever sad, afraid something made a meaning.

Samantha Pruitt:

And so all of that gets bundled up into the body at the same time. It's big work, but this particular work Byron Katie's work is an example of a very simplistic, simple way, then. That needs to be examined, it needs to be looked at, conversations need to be had, whether they're with yourself doing this work in writing, or with other people or, like we said, in group settings where you can move through it and process it. And these questions are just great because they get right to the heart of it.

Polly Mertens:

It just points to what's the meaning you're making up and what's the belief behind it right, you know? And it's those unwitnessed, unknowing.

Samantha Pruitt:

But wait a minute. Now you're screwing with my identity. I'm attached to this Totally, hey, lady.

Polly Mertens:

Totally, we've got to roll up our sleeves and get in there and get that identity. You know unbounded who am.

Samantha Pruitt:

I if I'm not. That's what I like. That fourth question, right. Who would you be without this?

Polly Mertens:

Dang. Instead, you know this, this particular scenario, the couple scenarios we were just talking about, like one of the things the before you let it go is big old V victim, no power. You know you're powerless against this person or this thing that happened to you. And if you take that as something that you want to live with, like you're walking around powerless, like no, like let this go right. And what this points to for me too in this work, is you know what are the things that you can control and what are the things you know, like not discerning sometimes the things that are in your control and the things that aren't right, like shouldn't show up to the meeting, like can't control that, like I didn't ask you, you know if it's an employee, it's like okay, you can let them go, whatever you know. But like you know, noticing the things that you can and can't control and most of it sits inside of you what you can control, like you, know, the world is going to happen.

Polly Mertens:

Things are going to blow up. Things aren't going to always go as planned. Big ways and little ways, and if I can be okay with all of it, right. Like I think part of her work is like being okay with what. I think she says in one of her quotes is like you fail or you you're wrong a hundred percent of the time If you disagree with what's what's what's so you're wrong a hundred percent of the time. It's like that shouldn't happen.

Samantha Pruitt:

You only control one thing You're mean like the most important thing, Exactly how you interpret inside meaning and react to the thing, whatever the hell the thing is, and you're the boss of that. Yeah, so continue to be the boss of that, but choose differently.

Polly Mertens:

Yeah. And so like just what you and I got to when we were saying like you know, we don't you and I don't any longer like pull out the four questions. So it's like you just zip from. Oh, I'm all, I'm heated, I'm triggered by that, I'm, you know, like I feel the upset or whatever. And it's like get to step four, okay, like what am I? What? What am I really upset about? What am I making up here and get off it? You know, get on with it. Man can't control because we immediately take back our power.

Samantha Pruitt:

yeah, right, Okay. Well, this was upsetting and I know I have control over this upsetting me or not upsetting me so I'm going to immediately examine that and then work through it and move the hell on. Hey, it doesn't mean that you're going to keep showing up into the space with that person. They are no longer needing to be part of your daily life experience or whatever. Also, that is a way to be empowered Bye Susie. See ya, you know that's cool. If that's the choice.

Polly Mertens:

Boundaries, or representing yourself in other places, or just like agreeing not to hang out with that energy. Whatever's going on.

Samantha Pruitt:

Go to places where you constantly feel the opposite. Hey, here's an idea.

Polly Mertens:

And I would say, um, you're going to take you anywhere you go. So like, like I was talking with a friend and we were talking about relationship work, like in an intimate relationship, like a man, woman, woman, woman, man, man, whatever you know. It's like, um, you know, you can. It's a different level of complexity when it's an intimate relationship versus friends or colleagues or something like that, when it gets into that intimate space. Right, that you can only, I think, do that work in those intimate relationships. So it's like, stay in that relationship and do the work there, because you'll take that shit with you if you, if you don't like, you think, oh, it's all him, or it's all her or whatever, it's like, maybe it's all you. And if you don't work it out and get clean, clean it up here, guess what different person, same things are going to show up, right, so yeah, well, don't get me started on another thing.

Samantha Pruitt:

I'm reading a different dr gobor mate book right now. It it's when the Body Says no, oh yeah, and it's all about the correlation between disease, and different diseases in particular, and certain types of personalities and how people operate in the world and mostly in intimate relationships and close relationships. You know how they were raised and that kind of stuff or who they're sharing their life with and how that's definitely impacts disease state, health or disease state, and there's a whole new science emerging around it, around the whole thing and your immune system and your brain and everything. It's just what is happening. This is really cool shit, but it needs to get out into like mainstream conversation so people can feel empowered, not disempowered. Happening this is really cool shit, but it needs to get out into like mainstream conversation so people can feel empowered, not disempowered.

Polly Mertens:

Yeah, my friend was saying this particular person intimately and stuff, they had some upset or whatnot and she's like my body doesn't feel safe around you and I was like, wow, Like she's so in tune with her nervous system, Like she's done a lot of this work and stuff. She's like my nervous system when his nervous system is dysregulated, mine gets dysregulated and she's good at like staying in hers but it doesn't feel safe and she's like I've done this and that and work whatever. It's like my body's not okay when his gets so dysregulated and if he can't self-regulate and stuff it's not a healthy place to be like, okay, good to notice and thank you you know, I bet that's pretty common.

Samantha Pruitt:

Okay, don't get us off on that thread. That's a slippery slope. Yeah, how do we want to close this thing out?

Polly Mertens:

what's your one thing? What's, uh, what's the most important thing to remember? Or is it the practice, or what did you?

Samantha Pruitt:

get. It's the practice. I would love, love, love for everybody to at least try it once. Because even if you think this is completely weird shit and you are just not into it, I would beg to differ that at least posing the question, questions, the slew of questions, even if you don't, you know, journal later do it in any deep dive, just superficially, you might be surprised to see what comes up?

Polly Mertens:

Yeah, I mean this work has not withstood the test of time. I mean it's so pointed to from you, name it. I mean I can't imagine how many websites point to her. Like you know this process A because, like I said, it's free and stuff, and so some of what we talked about were the questions, but I think watching her on video, so like, I just found it was super helpful to see it in action, not just the question. So I know we've tried to do our best to recreate that for people, but if you're going to take this on, I think watching her do it with someone and how she like gets into it and the space that she gives each question, um, like it's, it's like a presence of you know, it's not a, you know, two minute journaling exercise exercise, it's probably you know what she does it on the podcast too.

Samantha Pruitt:

I'm glad you brought that back up. That's called at home with byron katie. Um, it's a video and audio and she does have a guest and she does the work with the guest and packs something in the session basically.

Polly Mertens:

So they're live sessions, yeah that's cool, super helpful, like just to see, you know, because the witnessing and modeling of this work you go okay, especially if you're going to do it by yourself. You know it's one thing. If, like, you do it with a friend or something, there's something about being facilitated. I think that's helpful to this. But if you're doing, hey, god bless you. If you're doing your own work, like, don't pass it up and wait, you know, until somebody shows up, do it, it still and try it, you know.

Samantha Pruitt:

And even if you are doing your own work. I mean, I just want to encourage people at this point to have conversation and dialogue. You know, even if you're making remarkable progress with your own you know internal work, it's so lovely to be in conversation with other people around it, share it with other people around it, be able to share and express it and elevate the conversation with another individual that you trust and respect.

Polly Mertens:

You'll get way more out of it, yeah, and the sharing of it comes more clear for you and you discover things just like oh yeah, that's true, right, like hearing yourself say it, and then your subconscious is listening as well as you're speaking it out loud, so it's going in whole other places in the brain as well.

Samantha Pruitt:

And you're being of service to the world, because everybody needs this kind of support right now Everybody.

Polly Mertens:

Yeah, and as we say in women's circles that we have is if one woman's doing the work, we're all doing the work, exactly. One woman's working, we're all working. So you pick up this sheet, do it on anything that's troubling you, because you're doing it for Samantha, you're doing it for me, you're doing it for your family, you're doing it for humanity, exactly.

Samantha Pruitt:

Exactly, I love it.

Polly Mertens:

I love it All right lady. So what do you want to tell our beautiful humans before we go?

Samantha Pruitt:

How their life feels is more important than how it looks. Never said it better.

Polly Mertens:

Let me just like zip that out, yep, and every day is your opportunity to find your awesome. Thank you, beautiful humans.

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Polly Mertens

Co-host
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Samantha Pruitt

Co-host