126: Forgiveness - Why Its Not About Other Person

Forgiveness has a branding problem. People hear the word and think it means letting someone off the hook, pretending harm didn’t happen, or walking back into a relationship that still isn’t safe. We don’t buy that. We frame forgiveness as an intentional release of resentment and blame that loosens the restriction around your heart and gives your nervous system a chance to exhale.

We dig into what forgiveness is not: it’s not justice, it’s not denial, and it’s not reconciliation. We talk about severity and why nobody gets to judge what “should” hurt you, plus why forcing a confrontation can be a slippery slope. Then we shift into the real cost of holding on, how anger becomes “glasses” you wear all day, and how memory and rumination keep replaying old footage in the brain. We also name the upside that’s possible when you choose healing: post-traumatic growth, stronger boundaries, clearer communication, and a life that feels lighter.

The biggest turn is self-forgiveness. We get honest about shame, guilt, cultural and religious conditioning, and the survival habit of turning pain inward. We lean on self-compassion as the bridge and offer simple practices you can try today: journaling prompts, cleaning things up directly when it’s appropriate, writing yourself a love letter, and letting movement and nature help your body release what your mind keeps gripping.

If this conversation hits home, subscribe, share it with someone who needs relief, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s one thing you’re ready to set down today?

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Transcript

Welcome To Letting Go

Polly Mertens 0:08

Hey superstars, welcome back. Polly here. And Sam Pruitt. What's up, beautiful humans?

Samantha Pruitt 0:13

Howdy, howdy. Today is a very cool topic, and we always love these because they're timely because something's going on in our life. So we're calling this one letting go. Why forgiveness is never really about the other person.

Polly Mertens 0:25

Right?

Samantha Pruitt 0:26

Yes, forgiveness.

Polly Mertens 0:28

Damn, it's a hot topic, lady. Yeah, yeah. And I love our spin on this. So we yeah, most people are thinking, like, oh yeah, I got these people, like I'm never gonna forgive them, or you know, whatever they're holding on to. But we got a little something, a little something to talk about here because it's not just about the other person and what they did and what happened and whatnot. So where was the surprise? Woo-hoo! Yeah, and I I do have the definition. Should I set the stage with the definition of forgiveness where it comes from? Sure. Okay, very fun. So forgiveness is the intentional process of releasing resentment, uh, anger, or blame towards someone who caused harm. And guess what? Including yourself. The Latin root perdonary

Redefining Forgiveness As Heart Release

Polly Mertens 1:11

means to give completely without reservation. Uh-uh. Isn't that interesting? To give completely without reservation. That's interesting. Okay. Critically, forgiveness does not necessarily mean reconciling with the person who upset you or condoning the action. I think that's where people, you know, get that confused, is they're like, I can't forgive, because like that means that I think it's okay. In forgiveness, I love this. You seek the peace and understanding that come from blaming people less after they offend you and taking these offenses less personally.

Samantha Pruitt 1:45

Right? That all seems pretty complicated. I have a simplified version of that. Let's hear the side the proof version. That sounds like a whole lot of thinking. Too much, too much uh in the brain. Okay. So much of this is emotionally charged and emotionally driven. Yes. So I think of it as a release of the constriction around the heart. That simple. Forgiveness is a release of the restriction around the heart.

Polly Mertens 2:16

When you say that, I think of like, I think of our heart space as like where our life force flows through us, and like when we're in a loving state, like life force, I don't know whether it comes from behind you, above you, through you, whatever you want to call it, but just like it flows out through your heart towards other people. Like if it's open, the door is open, as you might say. It's flowing, or it can be closed, right? You're like, oh, I closed myself off to that person. And you feel it when you just feel like legit disconnect, or you cut someone off or out of your life because you've been hurt, you know, or the story you're telling yourself. So I get like the constriction around the heart.

Samantha Pruitt 2:48

Say more, say more, and it makes you feel sick. Yeah, it does. You know, you might think it's directed at the other if there's an othering part to this, but it's actually internally affecting you. Yeah, because sometimes people are pissed off at other people and they don't even know. The other person doesn't even know what the hell they're talking about is going on living their happiest life, which is so crazy that that actually happens quite a bit, or to whatever degree there might be a rift or something. You know, the one person thinks it's no big deal, and the other is completely like in shock mode over there. Yeah, but that restriction inside your personal heart or heart path or heart energy, if you want to look at it as energy, is a restriction of your body's function and your brain function out in the world, right? Not just a connection to other people, but the connection to yourself, a restriction.

Polly Mertens 3:45

Yeah, yeah, because it's all going on inside. And that's the that's the big thing that I want to shine the light on here is like people look outside for you know, blaming or assigning responsibility or whatever. And the suffering, the constriction, the the lack of energy, vitality, stress, whatever that person is experienced, sadness, hurt, resentment is inside of us. It's all in in internal game, right? So I get it.

Samantha Pruitt 4:12

Yeah, I get it. It doesn't mean the other person didn't do something naughty or horrible. Um, we're not talking about that. We're talking about how it manifests and really how it becomes your problem, your very intimate personal problem. And know that you're the source of it.

Polly Mertens 4:28

You're you're ultimately the source of it. I that's where I'm I'm gonna go with yeah, yeah.

Samantha Pruitt 4:32

Yeah. What it what forgiveness is not oh, yeah, okay. So also in addition to that, you know, I'm in this course, a year to live, and one of my Dharma teachers, Frank Astaseki. So he's got the great book. You also have been um reading it, The Five Invitations. Amazing. Get that book, yeah. But he says that all forgiveness is self-forgiveness. Boom. How about them, apples? All forgiveness

Justice, Boundaries, And No Reconciliation

Samantha Pruitt 5:04

is self-forgiveness. Boom, baby. I know, I know. It's like I was like, wait, what? That's what that was kind of fun to unpack this last weekend when we were in course. Let's talk about what forgiveness is not, and then we will get into why Frank's saying that and sort of what that means when we talk about self-forgiveness. But forgiveness is not about justice. Okay, justice still needs to be served. People do things, and there needs to be justice served upon the wrath of evildoers. Hell to the yes. Um, but forgiveness is not about justice or the others, and it does not require a reconciliation, which is what you spoke about just briefly earlier. You don't have to reconcile with anybody, you don't actually even need to talk to them or involve them in any way, shape, or form to be able to experience forgiveness for yourself with the external world as well. Okay. And justice does need to be served, no doubt about it.

Polly Mertens 6:04

And there's severities, you know. I would just, I just want to point to, you know, we in a last podcast we did, we talked about, you know, like there's severities of things too, right? So the degree of insult or rejection or hurt or whatever, right? So, you know, as we talk about this, just know that we recognize there are severities, you know, and and there's and the more sometimes severe the injustice, the hurt, the you know, the crime. Yeah, the crime, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The action, the trauma, whatever was caused, um, we get it's harder for that releasing, right? You know, so you may hold on to that. And the impact on you probably is equally more painful to the heart or wherever it gets stored in the body. So just know like we're not like piddling this, like, oh yeah, like that you guys are talking about like little tiny forgivenesses, you know, like little white lies or something like that. Like, we get that there's severity in this, right?

Samantha Pruitt 7:01

Yeah, absolutely. No shortage of people have been harmed in many, many, many ways. The point for our conversation today is to empower them to reclaim their own healing around that and their own story or life journey related to these experiences so that they can move forward, right? That's what we're all about. Yeah. Um, many people are born into causes and conditions that cause them to do horrible things. Yeah, we're not greenlighting or glossing over that or excusing that in any way, shape, or form. There's plenty of people that um, yeah, it's unfortunate, right?

Polly Mertens 7:40

And there's no like not uh you know, uh acknowledging something happened, right? Right. It's not like we're not saying, like, oh, that didn't happen. You should just forgive them and move on. It's like, okay, whatever happened, that happened, yes, right. And so what so what so? Okay, so what, right? And we're looking at the so what. Now what do you do? You know, what do you hold on to? And are you gonna give yourself the power to release what we're about to go into? It's like what you're holding on to, right?

Samantha Pruitt 8:06

And I believe it should be the person's choice. Like, I do not believe that religions or laws or environments or groups or whatever all should ever force somebody to confront their, you know, the person who harmed them or whatever. All I know there's a lot of that kind of stuff out in the world. I personally believe that's the choice of the victim or the person that had the experience, and people should not be put in those circumstances because of guilt or shame or forced for any particular reason to even re-enter the room, the conversation, the connection, none of that stuff. I that's to me that is not it's a slippery slope. It could work for some people, but I think forcing people to do that is not healthy, has to be their choice.

Polly Mertens 8:55

And there's different ways that you can forgive, right? There's like the core and then how it gets expressed, right? You know, so that's what we're gonna some of what we'll talk about is you know, sometimes it's you know, spoken to the person, sometimes it's a letter, sometimes it's phone call, sometimes it's just you know, they've passed away and you do it, you know, so you're not like doing anything but your own thing, right? So how you choose totally how you choose to demonstrate or signify or ceremonially whatever it is for you. So yeah.

Samantha Pruitt 9:26

Just like it's not really up to anybody else to determine or judge. Um, that really wasn't serious enough. You shouldn't be holding the grudge. That didn't really hurt you. You're fine, you know. I mean, a lot of us were raised this way, by the way. Dust it off, move forward, suck it up, let it go. I can think of a thousand things. Um, I'm in a professional work environment right now. There's been some weird behaviors we're addressing with the humans. Humans are complicated, it gets messy, but there are a few people that are of that sort of school of thought, like, hey, just let's just blow it off and move on. Yeah, no, first of all, you don't get to be the judge of that because it didn't happen to you. And also the circumstances are they need to be addressed professionally and appropriately and so forth, right? So we're not here to judge, and nobody should be judging for another, um, the level of severity for people, you know, coming to terms with this kind of stuff and tackling forgiveness themselves. For sure, for sure.

Polly Mertens 10:24

And core of what we're out to is freedom, freedom for each person, and that peace that comes from freeing yourself with that forgiveness. So let's let's get into it.

Samantha Pruitt 10:34

Why should they forgive, though? Why should people practice forgiveness, Polly? I wanted to hear your answer.

Polly Mertens 10:42

Um, I've got a bunch.

Samantha Pruitt 10:45

Um, I mean, the biggest thing that comes up for me, and it's just sort of a big blanket or umbrella statement around it, is you know, to be able to harness

Why Forgiveness Fuels Healing And Strength

Samantha Pruitt 10:54

those wounds, those scars for the betterment of yourself in life. So I look at it always, probably because I'm a physical person and I think about muscles and tissues and whatever, right? But scar too, there's a wound and it's a gaping wound and it's bleeding. A trail runner, a friend of mine, just sent me a picture this morning. Literally, her lip is cut open and her face, and she just did a full-on face plant on the trail. I'm like, no, girl. So that does happen, right? Gaping wounds happen, and then the body will slowly over time heal that with scar tissue, which is remarkable. The human body is remarkable, right? All of these cells and the immune system, all these things will activate in order for that healing pathway to happen. That's true for emotional and psychological wounds as well. And then it builds a stronger foundation if you choose to leverage it for that connective tissue to move forward so that heart can be stronger, that connective tissue around the wound can be stronger. Like maybe you get better boundaries, maybe you get better communication style, maybe you get whatever. You develop other aspects of resiliency over that experience. And to me, that's money. Money. That's why I'm freaking a warrior, dude. It's like so much bullshit. Okay. I mean, and you can either take it in and utilize it to your advantage, or like you said earlier, you can make it your story and attach yourself to the suffering and allow that to control your path forward.

Polly Mertens 12:32

There is a choice here. Yeah, and I think you and I, you know, so like the visual that came up for me when I thought about, you know, the key word in that first definition I gave you is the intentional releasing of whatever. And I then you insert resentment, anger, blame, whatever. I look at those as like energy baggage, like it's energy baggage in the body. And the intentional releasing, I'm thinking of holding on to these stories of resentment is like an anchor. Like you're you're like, I'm just gonna lug around, you know, an extra 20 pounds of junk, you know, baggage with me, right? It slows you down. It it's not it releases, you know, it reduces your vitality and your energy. And I'll tell you from a neuroscience standpoint in studying hypnosis and how the brain works and it links things up, right? So you have this experience and it gets very so the mind stores literally a picture or a video of that entire thing, like a snapshot, like the moment of something happening, or the video of the thing happening

Memory Loops, Rumination, And Growth

Polly Mertens 13:31

and they experienced you what they said, whatever. And guess what? You probably don't have the playback exactly right, just FYI. Like it's not quite quoted, you know. Quite what you think happened, happened. So it gets that, and all and literally the human brain memory is fucking fascinating. So all the sensory things, whatever you smelled, heard, you know, the music that was going on, or what they said, or whatever, all that gets stored around that image, right? So it's fascinating how you can, you know, you people see this definitely when you like have a strong relationship, and maybe there's a favorite song you guys had, and then you break up and then you hear that song, and it reminds you of that person. Okay, same thing happens in these traumatic events of uh reliving some painful traumatic event or whatnot. So I look at the forgiveness is you like soften the edges and you soften the impact of that because guess what? Those things that have that level of emotional charge, the more charged it is, the more it's going to attract more things like it. Guess what, sister? You're gonna find more people to do that stuff to you, you know, and it's like if we can soften the edges of that that blow or that resentment by forgiving it and blessing it, it's like, okay, I like you, I love what you said. It's like I grew out of it, right? Like, yeah, that's what happened, and I'm this. Like you create a neuro association, like, and I'm stronger, I'm a boundaries boss, I'm you know, I don't get I'm not a doormat anymore, or I speak my truth, or whatever, like you come out of that. But the next time the brain goes down that pathway of something happening, like, and I have good boundaries, and I'm, you know, I speak for up for myself, and I whatever, you know, so you can rewire that when it gets stuck and stored as an image or a movie, and we just fester it, it's like, you know, it just a that anchor and that weight. So just wanted to.

Samantha Pruitt 15:21

And then you can see how because you have an anger or resentment, a grudge, something you're holding against another, it doesn't have to be traumatic, it can be, you know, an argument or something on a smaller scale, right? But how that has an energy to it, and then I'm pissed off, okay, because I've got a spark of that energy left from the argument this morning or the guy, whatever the thing is. And then I move around in the world the rest of the day with that energy vibration, yeah, anger, we'll call it in this case, or it could be sadness, it could be hurt, whatever. Um, and I kind of start looking at that through the lens of that and attracting that. So now I'm pissed off at the barista who screwed up my drink, and now I'm pissed off at the guy who cut me off as I'm driving down the road, and now I'm just pissed off at everything. Yeah, right. I'm carrying around that emotional charge, that energetic emotional charge called anger with me for the rest of the day. And I might take it out on my child or my spouse or you know, whatever, perfect strangers. Again, the barista, you know, is just there trying to make me the best coffee ever. So, like having awareness is such a big part of it, right? Yeah, yeah.

Polly Mertens 16:41

Yeah, because what's happening is like you've put on a set of glasses, like people are this way, whatever. That situation caused a set of glasses to come on. You created a paradigm out of a you know, bad experience that could have been a one-off, you know, could have just been like one-off, and if you let it go, it's like, nope, that's not the way the world is and people are. Nope, that's just the way that person is and they were then, and I walked into it and it was a bad moment, or whatever. Like, nope, nope, that's the way that the world is and people are. And so you go out in the world and you're like, who else is like this? Oh, you're like this, you know, and then you just uh, you know, you're just gonna bring more to you. Stop it. Stop that, stop it, stop that.

Samantha Pruitt 17:18

I wrote a little note about PTG, which is post-traumatic growth. I feel like we mentioned this in another podcast, post-traumatic growth, right? So it's the question um posed all the time in research studies about why some people who have a really negative experience and are harmed in some way, physically, emotionally, otherwise, um, what do they do with it? Yeah. And why do some people experience, you know, depression, anxiety, and all these other negative repercussions and stay kind of stuck in that. And others do not. They find growth out of it. Um, they create meaning and purpose connected to the thing, the incident, we'll just call it. Um, they discover their own inner strength through the process of overcoming. I love that. They build a deeper connection to others through the support that they might be connecting to in order to get their healing accomplished and their communication happening, you know. They build resiliency by reframing, adapting, growing, and then ultimately expressing freedom through the experience, which is what I alluded to earlier.

Polly Mertens 18:22

Boy, as you put as you put all this together, post-traumatic, I saw like the rebuilding of the human and like they're stronger because of it, you know, emotionally stronger, emotionally more um astute, resilient. Um totally.

Samantha Pruitt 18:38

Okay, so I have another question. I have so many questions. Today's the day for questions. Speak up, class. Are you ready? This was one of the questions we were asked in our workshop this weekend. Ooh, okay, so one of the questions was what gets you in the way of forgiving others? What gets you, and we are suggesting people should

What Blocks Forgiving Other People

Samantha Pruitt 18:58

journal this if they want to work on forgiveness. So one of the questions is what gets in the way of you forgiving others.

Polly Mertens 19:06

Well, you and I have trouble answering these because we're such we're like, fuck that, let that shit go. But what would?

Samantha Pruitt 19:13

Well, these are some of the things that came up. I know I was like, I don't know if I'm pissed off at anybody right now. I mean, I have spent many years though, pissed off. I mean, I'm gonna say, but most of those incidents or situations I would generally turn against myself, and we'll get into that self-forgiveness piece the second half. That was my magic trick. Let's not be doing that. What gets in the way of forgiving others? Um, wanting justice or the other person to have remorse. Lots of people cling to that. Suffering. You need to suffer over there, right? So justice still needs to be served in many instances. Of course it does. And you have to have a greater belief in the laws of all of that, um, or the other person having resource. Remorse, you're not responsible, and you can never control how the other person is going to respond. That's their damn job. Okay, you need to just be all up in your own business. Yeah. Um, attachment, so needing of attachment or fear of rejection. So, you know, if I don't forgive you, or if I do forgive you, you know, will I be rejected? Will we still have an attachment bond? All of those kinds, that's just primal shit right there.

Polly Mertens 20:20

Wow.

Samantha Pruitt 20:21

Super primal stuff. And you can see why a lot of us just go, you know, interesting.

Polly Mertens 20:28

Yeah.

Samantha Pruitt 20:28

And it can be positive or negative, which I think is super interesting too, right? Like, so if I do forgive you, then I can be attached to you again and we can be back together. I'll be safe. You know, that attachment will come back in. Um, if I don't, then I'm rejecting you before you reject me, right? There's this whole dynamic that can be at play there. I do think unfortunately, that's a big one for people because it's so primal. Yeah, yeah, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Fear and fear is interesting because sometimes when people are angry, they feel safe in the anger. Like if I stay angry, I'm actually in control of this, you motherfucker. And I'm in control here, and I am the boss of this, and so I'm gonna be telling you how this is going to go, and I'm gonna be trapped in that.

Polly Mertens 21:19

Well, on the emotional ladder, right? So if we look at, you know, disempowered is so the disempowered states of like depression, helplessness, hopelessness, whatever, like the low, low, low energy states. Moving up the ladder, if you look at the ladder of emotional, you know, regulation. Yeah, so the highest would be like joy and bliss, whatever. We're at the very bottom stages. Anger is a higher state. So it's why we so we get a little bit of power back by being in anger as opposed to being disempowered. Yeah. So it's it's actually that person starting to help themselves. Yeah.

Samantha Pruitt 21:52

Mm-hmm. Problem is when people get stuck there. Stuck there.

Polly Mertens 21:55

No, no, don't park. We're not gonna park stuck anywhere. Don't park your car in there. No, it's a drive-thru. No, it's a drive-thru.

Samantha Pruitt 22:02

Keep uh we already mentioned this several times. Confusing, confusing forgiveness with reconciliation. Okay, they're they're not the same thing, you don't need to reconcile with anybody. Okay, true. Uh rumination of the past. Dang, lots of people do this. This is fascinating. I'm sure I do it too. Um, the problem with ruminating over and over and over about you know what transpired and reliving it, and what if they said this and what if I'd done that, and blah blah blah, and all the things is you make zero room, you allow zero room or oxygen in the thoughts and in the brain for moving forward. You just continue to circle the wagons, circle the wagons, looking for something that could have, should have, maybe, will be different. There's no moving forward.

Polly Mertens 22:49

I have not seen a person successful yet change the past. Haven't seen it. I mean, I don't know. That would be pretty mad. I haven't seen it. So you might just want to go, okay, that is what happened. All right. And and what's so, you know.

Samantha Pruitt 23:03

And you know what's so interesting about that is what something you said a few minutes ago is lots of people actually don't. Okay. I was explaining this to someone the other day. I won't give details. But like how the other experienced it is not the same as how I'm experiencing it anyway. Okay, I'm experiencing it through all of my belief systems, past experiences, everything I bring to the table that's me right now, today in this moment, at this age, blah, blah, blah. And that person experienced it completely different, of course, through their own lens and experience and values, et cetera, et cetera. So they're not even the same thing.

Polly Mertens 23:40

Yeah. I had two experiences just now that you're saying this. I'm like, oh wow, I bet you there's people out there that are thinking that I they I need to be for or I should be forgiven. And I didn't even like one guy was like, hey, you did this and that. I was like, oh wow, that was even a thing. You know, like so, and and there was no malicious intent or whatever, but like, unless you had brought it to me, I was non-plus. Like, I didn't, I didn't even see it, right? Like it was not even my realm of possibility. And the same with the second one. She was like, Hey, I think this is out of whack and this and that. And I was like, Okay, you see that? I I don't see that. Okay. And she's like, You don't see that? I'm like, I don't, I don't see it though, you know, and so you know, we could just be going around in our own bubbles and own worlds. So we pretty much are because guess what? This brain, each brain, yeah, each brain is just uniquely um carved of our experiences, so how we see the world, what's happened to us in our lifetime, and where we grew up and all that stuff. Like that's the lens where filtering all this stuff called life through. And like you said, no two people are gonna see the exact same thing the same way. One person has a completely different reaction than the other one. So that's where she and I were looking at us, like, I don't see it. And she's like, You don't see that? I'm like, I could see why you see that, but I don't see that.

Samantha Pruitt 24:59

Which leads to one of the things, and this did ring true for me in terms of forgiveness when I started to do my own work around it. Uh, I have this idea that I need to understand what they were thinking, or like what was the logic or reasoning? Like, why did they do the thing? I'll just use a parent example without a lot of details. Like, why did my parents say X, Y, Z at a certain junction in my life that was a critical make or break moment for me? Why did they choose this direction to say these things and do these things? Did they not understand the impact it would have on me? What the hell were they thinking? Kind of thing. And I was like, Well, how the hell am I ever gonna know? First of all, they're not with us anymore, they've moved on. But I don't remember, yeah. No, and why should I get attached to that? Yeah, how what is how does that serve me in any way, shape, or form today?

Polly Mertens 25:54

Well, the brain is trying to go, well, maybe if they didn't mean it, then I could let them off that, you know, like it's looking for a way to justify instead of just yeah, excuse or oh, that less offense, you know, it's like a less offensive what they did or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So that's the ego, basically. I need to know why. There's a shortcut. Yeah, there's a shortcut. Just skip the why, you know. If you could just call me, hey, remember that thing that happened 40 years ago? Let's talk about it. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Samantha Pruitt 26:24

Oh my god. Okay, so do you have anything to add to that? What gets in the way of people forgiving others or you, if you want to give yourself as any the the thing, why is it hard to forgive others?

Polly Mertens 26:37

Well, I think the thing I would add, maybe, and I think you know, if I say this out loud or if it's occurred to me, I'm probably doing it or have done it. So we'll we'll see. But what wants to come out is um we get to be a victim. We get to blame someone else for how we're feeling. We get to, you know, be pissed off, we get to, you know, whatever, justify, you know, pulling away from that person or whatever it is, you know. So it gives us a rationalization for our lack of, you know, closure and you know, whatever. And not to say that it's intelligent or, you know, emotionally mature and helpful for you. I'm just saying that could be one of the reasons is either intentionally or unintentionally staying in a victim state or like, you know, getting so you know, what I say is um there's a payoff to be behavior, right? Pros and cons, right? So somebody's getting some payoff by being that way, right? Whether they're conscious of it or unconscious of it, there's a payoff.

Samantha Pruitt 27:42

So well, if I stay stuck in this story, yeah, it's a lot less work for me. I really don't have to get busy sorting my own shit out because I can just keep pointing to Thelman Louise over here who've done done me wrong, right? It's holding me back, blah, blah, blah.

Polly Mertens 27:56

And I love how I don't love, but I I see it a lot. Let me say that differently. I see it a lot where people justify playing small for a lot of years, months, years of their life because of something that happened so long ago. It's like, can you even remember who you were then? Like, can you like how young were you? Right? Kind of thing. But they justify the plateau or where they are in their life because of that thing, and point to it like, well, it can't be that. It's like, that's not here now. They're not here now. What you know?

Samantha Pruitt 28:29

So, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm also doing a lot of study on trauma and stuff like that. And there's some really interesting things around the brain and the brain forming during those moments and why things sort of get trapped, and that is a whole other science-based, like, whoa, dude. But this part that we're talking about, so that's a real thing in brain development itself, and where things start to go terribly wrong and need to be healed. But like for us, this part that we're just speaking about and this ego attachment to, you know, this is part of my identity or my story, and I want to continue to carry it with me on my back because, like you said, in some way, shape, or form, it's serving me. Well, the serving could be it's protecting me from getting close to other people. All sorts of things, yeah. Well, and I just so many things that it can be getting in the freaking way of.

Polly Mertens 29:25

And I'm so glad you brought up what you brought up because I hadn't distinguished that because you're absolutely right. There can be conscious and subconscious, right? So a person could be conscious that they're choosing it, and someone could be choosing it subconsciously, and it's like this, you know, torpedo behind them, and it's like killing off relationships, it's killing off possibilities or behavior that could serve them because it's rooted in the subconscious, out of a protection, out of something broke and a relationship and a dynamic, and their brain solved it by like becoming a new way, and it's now a part of their identity or whatnot. So you're you're absolutely right.

Samantha Pruitt 29:59

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's big, it's big work. Ah, dang it. Okay, let's talk about this next question. Are you ready? Let's go. What's standing in the way of you forgiving yourself? Journal question number two. What is standing in the way of you forgiving yourself? I was like, what is he talking about?

Polly Mertens 30:24

Well, first that me, first thing you have to look at is there's something to

Self-Forgiveness Through Self-Compassion

Polly Mertens 30:28

forgive. And sometimes we just like hide it from ourselves. I think I've got a lot of that, you know, bullshit going on over here.

Samantha Pruitt 30:34

So like Well, listen, once we started getting into this, and of course, I was like, Oh, obviously, like, hello, who the hell doesn't have this shit? But we are so constantly like thinking of the other and the outer experience of our lives, right? But then it was like, oh my Lord, literally, I could just have all day long journaled about this because that's again another coping mechanism, right? But it's so much easier, especially when you're young, to develop this um survival skill of turning it against yourself. It's a lot easier for me to take this out on me than it would be to tell you or to act out towards you and be rejected or not be cared for or not be loved or not be fill in the thousand blanks, right? So if I can just keep this all swirling inside me and point the finger, and really it's can be quite self-abuse, you know, in all myriad ways, shapes, and forms that this can come out for us. But it's it's intense.

Polly Mertens 31:36

Well, and I I want to layer a story in here, and I don't even have like I I can't say I've said this story out loud maybe more than once the whole thing, so it may come out just like how it's gonna come out, but there's a dimension in this that I'm resonating with what you're talking about, and that is I'm seeing how um I'll have times and I'm just gonna speak who it's you know, the relationship that it's about, just so it's very, you know, apparent. It's not like some fictitious relationship. So my relationship with my mom, there will be things that happen between her and I, I will get angry, frustrated, angry are usually the ones bored or you know, just um impatient. Those are kind of my like go-tos, if you will. Those are my triad, but the one that I like the least of myself is the anger, like like um, because my identity is tied, like I have this, you know, good person identity, like with the halo or whatever, like treat people how you want to be treated and love them and stuff. So like anger does not show up in that same identity. And I had um my friend was on our last podcast, and she helped me see like that's valid. Like having that anger is valid, like that person is whatever they're doing, like anger, okay. Like you had an angry moment, whatever, you got angry, felt anger, whatever it is. Acknowledge that, right? I would like well-deserved piss up pissed offering, yeah. Well, so piss offering. So, what the loop for me looked like when we were talking about the self-forgiveness is I would immediately go to, I shouldn't be getting angry. I should know better than this.

Samantha Pruitt 33:10

Make yourself wrong for even having the emotion. Exactly.

Polly Mertens 33:15

So I would shortcut this so fast. It was like, why, you know, it used to be, right? Like so when I used to blame before I knew that it was my, I'm the one that's doing it, I would say, she makes me so angry. I hate that she makes me angry. And then I'm like, I hate that I get so angry, and I would put all this like self-abuse towards myself, like I hate being angry, you know, and then I would just create all this distant, whatever. And once I knew that I was the one that was doing it, I couldn't blame her for it. It was like, no, it's it's you're, you know, it's an inside job, my friend. Um, but oh, the this has only come to be a new spotlight in my personal growth of like, wow, can I forgive myself that I get angry? Can I forgive myself that I have moments that I get angry, staying in an angry state or being an angry person or an attitude where people don't want to be around you because you're angry all the time. Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna go off the deep end. But yeah, in a lifetime, is it okay to be angry? Yeah, I had it that it wasn't, right?

Samantha Pruitt 34:12

Well, if you think about this, is where you just your mind is like, what the fuck? Like if you did like a life inventory, which is part of kind of what we're doing, but in this instance, that's not at all what we were assigned to do this in this class. But my mind immediately went to like uh the whole life trajectory, because that's where my lens is in this course, is like, oh, I need to kind of go back to the beginning or whatever. So if you think about like being a young child and just trying to survive in the environment, whatever it is, okay, even if everything is freaking cupcakes and rainbows and shit, okay, stuff is going on in that little brain as it is forming and as you're trying to bump and bruise your way through life, right? And then you get into ages where maybe you start to take some form of self-abuse that could be through, I mean, everybody's got all kinds of things, but it could be with food, it could be relationships, it could be physical punishments upon yourself. Yeah, a form of any kind of self-beating or self-punishment, and it comes in so many shapes and sizes. And you see this a lot in childhood behavior when the child is really frustrated or sad or can't express or feels rejected. I mean, you see it outwardly being projected, and then as we and it's socially unacceptable by parents and other people in society, so don't get me started on that. Kids just trying to freaking get these feelings out, right? And then, as a, you know, maybe teen, it can be really dangerous behaviors, you know, it can be things where you're putting yourself in dangerous situations because of it. I totally did that big time, and then in adulthood, you know, where we're still using these behaviors that are self-wounding, and that unpacking that and being able to be honest about it and understand that you were doing your best at that time and not able to operate, you didn't have the skills, you didn't know how to communicate, whatever it was, you could not get it up and out, right? So you internalized it. Carrying that into your adult life, that kind of self-abuse is such a burden and such a load. And I'm telling you, girl, we gotta let that shit out. And it freaking blew my mind even thinking about it because I hadn't really thought of it in a way that, hey, I need to forgive myself for these things, these times in my life where I acted that way towards myself. I just saw it as a survival, right? But I now, as a grown-ass adult woman and witnessing, you know, my own friends, family, or whatever still suffering in these ways and trying to understand their behaviors, it makes so much more sense for me going, wow. I too need to forgive myself. I'm trying to help them forgive themselves and develop their self-worth so they can overcome these things and move through them. But I need to do the same fucking thing. Yeah, totally. I mean, what the hell? Yeah, teacher and I've never really done that, right? So I thought, okay, how can I do that? And there are some ideas around how to do that and start unpacking it. But first you have to just look at it for reality.

Polly Mertens 37:23

Well, and I think too, you know, there's a I don't know how the, you know, we haven't studied them, but there's like some sort of trend line when you are able to achieve and overcome difficult things, right? Like you push, you're able to push yourself, you're able to, whatever, like that takes something, uh level, you know, whatever. And you're not always what you know, like I think like I think if people, if you had people do some of the workouts you do to yourself, they would be like, what are you trying to kill me here? You know, kind of moment, right? But you see it as like, yahoo, right? So like that fine line of like pushing yourself to edges, and I mean the the body breakdown that I've seen you take, you know, in these races and just challenges you you do, it's like um there's there's a beautiful uh thread of of growth and uh self-compassion and stuff. But if you looked at it from the outside, you'd be like, that person's punishing themselves, right? And there's there's this line between like how you treat yourself with that and like loving yourself with kindness, you know. And and I I wonder too, you know, I think about um Kristen Neff has a great um, she's a she's been studying self-forgiveness and has a great TED cut, several great TED talks out there and books. Um her she says that self-compassion is the pathway to self-forgiveness, right? That's one of her kind of core tenets. And I think sometimes when you have this like hard-chargingness, like gotta get things done, being self-compassionate feels like softness and weakness, right? And it's like, how can those two exist? But I think there is how can they exist together? Yeah, like how can I push myself for achievement and like 50 miles and a hundred miles and stuff like that, and be compassionate?

Samantha Pruitt 39:13

It's this like cool people do this with their careers, they do it with making money, they do it with any and all things around, um, trying to be bigger, be better, outperform, out whatever their potential. Yeah, they rise exactly. There can be a rising to something really unbelievable, slightly unbelievable. I mean, in many cases, you see people and you're like, what in the hell? How are they getting that done? Right, but how can you, yes, marry that also with compassion? And it's paying attention when you're making the choices and doing the things, how does it actually make me feel? I have been in situations where I'm like, yeah, no, I couldn't feel more alive and more like stoked. And then I've had others where I'm like, what the hell? This is just just make this stop. So now of course I have stopped. Yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, I have stopped where it's like, okay, this is ludicrous. I need to just I need to just pull the plug on this. This is not fun anymore. That's what I say. But it's what I'm really saying is this is no longer good for me. Yeah, right. I say it's no longer fun, which is also a thing, but I'm saying it's no longer good for me. I want to um throw out a couple other ideas here on why people have a hard time forgiving themselves. They let it define themselves. We already talked about that, they make it their story. Religious or cultural indoctrination. Damn. See, you and I don't think we have that because you know, if we have, we've cleared it. But a lot of people out there do. I'm a little surprised to continuously learn to what extent. And it can be their families' belief systems, it can be the religious belief systems, it can be their schooling, it can be whatever environment they're hanging out in where this is a thing. I know, and that repeated guilt and shame, and you're bad, and all that stuff. I mean, I'm working with women in this group that are in their 70s and they're they're still carrying this around. They want to free themselves from this, you know, it's really painful.

Polly Mertens 41:19

It's so yeah, no, I don't even know what to say about it because there's um you can't have someone not choose their religion. It's like I I don't know how you reconcile this with some of the fundamental things that those religious some religious bodies have, you know, like the core of like being sinners.

Samantha Pruitt 41:38

Well, you fucking need to question it. Yeah, that this is not a truth.

Polly Mertens 41:42

Yeah.

Samantha Pruitt 41:43

Why would everybody just being born and existing be a bad person and a guilty person?

Polly Mertens 41:50

And what in that who made this shit out? And you and I are like 180 on the other side. We're like, oh no, you came in as stardust and you're a freaking amazing, and like you just need to be that and like Leo shine it, baby, right?

Samantha Pruitt 42:04

It's like and even if you're a total nutter and have done crazy things, you still deserve, in my opinion, redemption and peace and all the things.

Polly Mertens 42:14

Yeah, and you're not always vying for it. You know, that that thing in some some religion is like you're always vying for like for keep working for it, keep stacking those coins in the corner. By the time you get to the, you know, because there's gonna be pearly gays, and then they're gonna judge you, and then you're gonna know if you did all that stuff right. And if you didn't, like ship, ship, ship, out, exit, exit, stage left, down to hell.

Samantha Pruitt 42:32

Like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, so shame and guilt, people are trapped in that. A broken belief system about their self-worth. So I would say, for me, when I was younger, going through all of that, that's what was at the root of it, right? Is I could not connect to who I was, my own identity, my family identity, my society, whatever all the things were. So at the core of that was like, who the hell am I and what it what am I worth anyway? Right. So you get into these patterns of making bad choices, attracting more bad choices, and then they compound, right? So that broken internal It must be me.

Polly Mertens 43:10

It must be my fault. They did it, of course they would do this, you know. Yeah, I I made them do it, or yeah.

Samantha Pruitt 43:15

Yeah, yeah. Or this is what I deserve. Oh, all that kind of crazy shit. Oh boy, hell no. Yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck. Um, and that's of course a cycle of self-abuse, which we already talked about. So what are the lessons and learnings from that little can of whoop ass?

Polly Mertens 43:32

Well, the only thing I just wanted to like layer in there as we were talking about Kristen Neff and the self-compassion to self-kindness, is like when I was talking about you and your races and stuff like that, looks like punishment and you're whatever. And it's like, so self-compassion is a state of kindness to oneself. And so I just want to say that, and like just saying that makes me happy. Like, you know, as a as a former eating disorder person and who spent many years of not being kind to herself and mentally, physically, all of that. Um Um the idea of stepping into self-compassion was like so refreshing. It's like, wow, you can actually like forgive yourself and like have compassion and just like the holding of yourself, you know? It's such a sweet word and it's such a sweet notion. Like, I don't know, Kristen Neff's work around so I did a whole series, this was maybe like 10 years ago on all the selves. Like I studied self-compassion, self-trust, self-forgetting, all this stuff. And I did all these deep dives into it. And it was like, they're so sweet when we really honor what all of that turn towards ourselves can do in terms of personal transformation. I would say compassion is one of the yummiest, softest places to start because I think most people understand and can um create kindness to others, whether it's a flower, a baby, nature, yes, and forgiveness of things before themselves also. And it's like you have that capacity and it's and you know, like you inherently know how to just love and be kind and want good things for people, right? Thanks, you know, whatever. Um, and it's like, hey, over here, over here, you. Yeah, right. Um, it's actually it's a sweet one, so I just wanted to double-click on that for a minute.

Samantha Pruitt 45:19

I wrote down a few of my own thoughts. We need to show mercy on our past selves. Oh, yeah. I mean, hello. Oh no, shows uh well, even what I did yesterday. I'm sure I fucked up all kinds of things. I don't know.

Polly Mertens 45:32

I mean, I I was giving it a try. I was showing up to things, doing the best I could at the moment. I don't really know that it was that great based on what I had to offer yesterday. That's what I did. Okay, that's all today.

Samantha Pruitt 45:47

Thank you. Good night. Exactly. Hopefully, I'm doing a little bit better today, but am I? I mean, exactly. Like, you know, all things change, all things are in permanent, impermanence. Okay, like the foundational Buddhist truth, all things are impermanent, right? Okay, everything is always changing 24-7, all things. Okay, that's just the nature of the life, including me. Yeah, you know, an hour ago, I was laying on my chair like a slob after my workout. I was just all oh, I told you I totally bonked. Yeah, I had no energy. I was like, we're gonna have a podcast, we're gonna talk about. I mean, I just was like on another planet, and an hour later, I'm fine, I'm great. You know, look at that. But like all things are always changing, and be so open to that because there's so much freedom in that. Yeah, jeez. I mean, that is so liberating to me to think that hey, the next minute it can all be different yet again. Yes, that's a little bit scary sometimes, but it's so incredibly empowering.

Polly Mertens 46:54

You know? And I'd say that kind of goes back to as we started this that the idea of the energy baggage or the anchor, you know. And so if we have, you know, we're not forgiving ourselves or just holding on to, you know, like yesterday and we're just ruminating on it. It's like, okay, just pick up that weight and just carry it around through the day. How's that working for you? Like, can't go into the meeting. I like CrossFit where we gotta grab those big bags and walk around and put it on your shoulder and yeah, that workout, leave it at the gym. All right, on you go, you know, take the growth, drop the weights at the gym, people. Leave them in the gym. Yes, yes, be your best self, beautiful self, sprinkle that pixie dust out there, go forth. Yes.

Samantha Pruitt 47:33

All right, I got what else? Uh yeah, we're simply doing our best with the tools we have at the time. Hello, that's just like intellectually, we should all recognize that that's a real thing, okay? And as we know better, we can do better.

Polly Mertens 47:47

And we are we we're imperfect human beings on this planet, and we're gonna F it up sometimes. And I think it's just about cleaning it up. You know, when I was telling you about this scenario this past week where somebody's like, hey, you did this and this this is my the impact over here. And I was like, wow, I didn't even okay. And then and then he was like, I think you should do this. And I was like, okay, you know, and it it wasn't like against my morals or something. I was like, well, if that would make you feel better, sure. Like I still couldn't see it. I was like, wow, that I was like, absolutely, yep, I will say that. Yep, I will call that person and clean that up. You got it, you know, and so it's like just get into it, like get on it, get over it, move on.

Samantha Pruitt 48:28

Like the the Well you were able to do that without making right and wrong, but I'm right, and you're wrong, and blah, blah, blah, and all these things. You're just like, okay, whatever, like, cool. I at least I have the knowledge and communication, and now I can do it differently.

Polly Mertens 48:42

Yeah, and definitely, you know, I have definitely that's a light situation, you know. We talked about the severity and stuff. So I have definitely had times when I knew and I needed to own something, right? And so it's heavier and harder, you know, and like, yeah, there's like a bigger impact. Like he was like, Oh, yeah, there's an impact because of it, and it wasn't like grade 10, you know, blow up, you know, time bomb in his life or something like that. But, you know, especially in intimate relationships, we can fuck those up pretty good, you know, and it's like, all right, yeah, clean it up. And I I know when those need to happen too, right? And like I can't tell you in last year's communication course one of the things that I saw, and this guy, but we he and I that I said something, I was helping him with somebody else that he was having. There was like this triangle, like I said this, and he was like, Oh, that made this, whatever. It's hard to explain. But and I said, Well, you know, I think there's a conversation over there too, you know. And he was just texting with that person. I said, Yeah, but you know, and we learned so much in being in communication. So he was texting with me, and I was like, Well, hello, let's get on the phone, you know, like let's talk about this, clear this up. This is not a text moment, right? And and he's like, Wow, I I'm so grateful that we talked because I wasn't misinterpreting it. I was like, Yep, I was like, love and affinity, brother. That's all I got for you. That's all I got for you. There's nothing over here, it's all good, right? And I said, Go clean it up over there too. Like, love and affinity flowing, love and affinity flowing.

Samantha Pruitt 50:10

So people need to have love and affinity with themselves. And I know I'm slightly obsessed with this whole love letter concept I've been talking about all year, but like write yourself a freaking love letter. And I actually wrote a couple paragraphs um very quickly because they just like flow out of me now. And I'm always writing to dear sister Sam or little sister Sam or whatever. I think of myself as like the younger sister when I speak to myself with that open love and compassion, you know, like how would I say this if it were my little sister, that kind of thing. Um, but people can do it however the hell they want to do it, but you need to be having conversations with yourself. So if you're gonna do them on paper, if you're gonna do them with another to express, but it's a lot more intimate to and you know, usually easier to have these conversations with yourself, with yourself, you know, yeah, with no judgment. Write that shit down and burn it, throw it away, keep it, do whatever you want to do.

Polly Mertens 51:07

But try it out, yeah, scream it out, whatever, you know. Like I had a big one, I was on a run and I had this moment. I was like, oh dang, you know, and I for I was forgiving myself and I had this big cry moment. I just like paused on the trail and just like cried for the not taking good care of myself in those moments, you know, not standing up for myself.

Samantha Pruitt 51:26

I was like, ah, and it was like, ah, right, you know, just those are the best when Mother Nature just opens up for you like that, because you I know you were outside somewhere, you weren't on a treadmill at the gym with 10 people around you, um, and all of a sudden it's like pop! Yeah, and Mother Nature goes, Come here, I got that. Totally, I got that, I got that.

Polly Mertens 51:48

Super present how the movement created it and the thinking and what I was listening to right before that, and just like it was a perfect um moment, you know, and being a little tired from running, you know, it's like I got nothing. And then it was like, oh, like forgive, right? It was beautiful, beautiful. And like you said, like it can be a memo, it can be a letter to somebody, it can be a phone call, it can be a text. Just talking to yourself, you know, whatever format works for you. Mine was just a blurt.

Samantha Pruitt 52:16

Blur. Burp. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, we need to wrap it up. You got a one thing? You want my one one thing?

Polly Mertens 52:24

Yeah, give me your one thing first.

Samantha Pruitt 52:26

I want people to ask themselves a simple question. It's not simple. You know when I say that, it's not simple at all, right? I wish it were simple. Do you deserve? This is me asking myself or you asking yourself. So this is around self-forgiveness. Do you deserve health, happiness, peace, love, self-compassion. Do you deserve these things? Because if you do, you deserve forgiveness. And if you said no, you better call me.

Polly Mertens 53:05

ASAP. Stop listening. No, we we won't have you over there beating yourself up. I would say mine is um we didn't go much into the idea of peace and how I would say lack of forgiveness is lack of peace, you know, like a state of peace. Um, so I would say, what is it costing you, or what is the payoff you're giving by not forgiving yourself or someone else? And is it worth it? Right? Like, like really looking at, is it worth that? And or do you recognize that guess what? You're the one that's in that's got the key and is in the suffering sack, you know, so set yourself free. So I would say, you know, what's the value of peace to you? You know, and I I one of the things I feel like with this year to live that we've been studying is I ain't got time for all the like all the baggage, like, whoop, gotta go, you know, moving on, dropping baggage, you know, like nope, that emotion doesn't serve me. Okay, next, right? You know, just like when that gal told me that scenario, I was like, oh, you see that and that bothers you? Okay, well, let's let's clean it up because we have places to go, you know, like let's keep moving, let's not hang out here and just no spinning, can't change the past, whatever. Like life is now and now and now, and if there's something from, like you said, decades ago, like what's that costing you in the now? So like settle up and like let's go. Settle up. That's a good one. All right, what do we want to finally close with with our secret sauce? Are we closing?

Samantha Pruitt 54:33

Yeah, how your life feels, people.

Polly Mertens 54:36

How your life feels is more important than how it looks. You know that by now. Yes, and every day is your opportunity to find your awesome self.